tv Charlie Rose PBS December 17, 2015 12:00pm-1:01pm PST
welcome to the program, tonight, jennifer lawrence, one of the most highly praised and highly paid actors in the world today. her new film is called joy. >> i achieved more than i ever thought was possible. i just, when i first started acting and i was on a sitcom i was happy to be on a sitcom, sitcom for the rest of my life, i didn't really have these aspirations which is so much bigger than anything i could have imagined. so i can feel myself growing up and i am still making mistakes and i am learning from. >> >> rose: jennifer lawrence for the hour next. funding for charlie rose is provided by the following.
and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> from our studios in new york city, this is charlie >> rose: jennifer lawrence is here. she is an academy award winning actor, david edelstein called her a marvelous comic and dramatic actress and illuminate the struggle amid chaos to show inner stillness, winter's bone, "silver linings playbook" and. the hungers game. and here is a look at some of her work. >> i am sick and she always going to be sick. pretty soon they will come and take our house and throw us to live out in the field like dogs.
>> i volunteer. i volunteer. i volunteer to tribute. i believe we have a volunteer. >> you need to get out of here. go find mom. >> no, no. >> you are afraid to be alive, you are afraid to live. you are a hypocrite, you are a conformist, you a liar, i opened up to you and you judged me. you are an asshole, you are an asshole. >> calm down. >> get off me. >> get off me. you are harassing me. she harassing me. >> life is riddle and you know that i would never say anything bad about your father in front of you but your father is a stick son of a bitch. sick son of a bitch. >> i am afraid -- ♪
>> i va message for president snow i have a message for president snow you can torture us and bomb us and burn our districts to the ground, but do you see that? fire is catching. and if we burn, you burn with us! >> rose: lawrence stars as joey in david o russell's new film joy opening on christmas day. i am pleased to have jennifer lawrence at this table for the first time. so when you see that, what do you think? >> memories. >> from shooting. >> rose: the favorite characteristic of all of those? >> rosalynn was the most fun. >> why? >> it is just so out there and so different, and i just loved her. she started with the nails and it was just -- that was really fun. and it wrs also supporting. so it wasn't -- the work schedule was nice. i have nice memories from that character. >> rose: what is interesting
about this is you are the female lead of this film, david russell says that is kind of -- it is saying something big about you and saying something big about what he believes in as a film maker. do you feel a responsibility? >> yeah. i mean, i feel a responsibility anyway but, you know, in are logistical responsibilities. that come with it, you know, leading a big movie, you to be on time, you have to work hard and work long hours. >> rose: that's not hard for you. >> no, it is not but it is a responsibility. >> rose: all of this with no acting classes. >> yes. >> rose: what does that say? >> you can learn? without going to acting school?3 >> i can learn? well i mean i have had amazing directors, i have been very fortunate to have unbelievable directors but i don't know, i have always loved it. >> but what is it you think about you? i mean this has been a remarkable journey. from certainly one of the most
highly paid actors if not the most highly paid actor in the world, extraordinary reviews and people talking about you, i mean, here is donald sutherland said how brilliant that child jennifer lawrence, i said to somebody earlier today, change your name to jennifer lawrence olivier and get done with it just call her sir. david 0 russell, this is what he said to me last night at this table as we taped for a future broadcast. roll the tape. >> i have watched jennifer grow up since we first met her on "silver linings playbook" she walked on as a 20-year-old girl who was not famous and asked them how it was like to be tape mouse and i watched her have to deal with an enormous amount of attention and all sorts of things and remain true to herself and find her voice, power and dignity. i watched her buy her own house for the first time and unpack her boxes and i have seen her learn to conduct herself and protect herself and while still being true to herself, that takes a certain power and she
made herself starting at 14. so-so me the movie is about jennifer as well. >> rose: and in the sense of the narrative is her narrative as well, discovering herself? self invention as well? >> yes and we wouldn't want to do a bio pic, people think it looks like a cake on the outside. >> rose: but it is a struggle. >> enormous struggle that never ends and it is filled with heartbreak, so what is the emotion and joy? i ask that question as a film make they are has to be enough to come to the collaboration and say it is worthy of your time and you, jenniferly do it if you do it, i say we will do it if we can do it with ambition. >> he is nice. >> rose: more than nice. he understands you. doesn't he? >> yeah. i understand him. we have -- i mean, he is probably the most important relationship in my life, besides family. >> rose: what is it about the
relationship? >> there is an understanding -- i mean we both love cinema and we understand each other so well that i feel like both of us can be -- i mean, i can attest to him giving me my greatest performances. he can push me and pull things out of me i didn't even know who were there so i can be my absolute best with him and hopefully i can -- i can inspire him to want to keep -- i don't know --, you know, we get along. we have a similar sense of humor. we have fun. and we have an enormous amount of respect for each other but really, we have a very deep understanding of each other. >> rose: he talks about the growth and the reinvention. do you see that? do you see that in a sense you have been in control of your life and you have made -- you have achieved what you wanted to
do? >> yes. i mean i feel like i am growing. i have achieved more than i ever thought was possible. i just -- when i first started acting, i was on a sitcom i was happy to be on a sitcom for the rest of my life, i didn't really have these aspirations, this is so much bigger than anything i could have imagined. so i can feel myself growing up and i am still making mistakes and i am learning from, but i do understand what he means by, i feel very different than when i first met david. >> rose: how so? >> just growing and getting older and i don't know, your senses change, my defense used to be i am little, i don't know. >> rose: what are your senses now? >> i know exactly what you are up to. >> rose: you have learned that, don't you? >> it is a work in progress. >> so where does this take you? do you feel like this is the best time of your life that you
have come to after all of this in terms of franchiser irs that you have done so well in, "the hunger games" and "x-men", in terms of getting able to play roles with robert dinero and bradley cooper and eddie ramirez and a range of men and women who have proven talents? this must be for you a remarkable time to say -- >> yes. >> rose: wow. >> yes. as an actor, go really feel like there is anything i have the right to wish for anymore. >> rose: do you understand talent? i mean, do you understand why you? what was it about jennifer that enabled her to achieve this remarkable growth? >> i don't know. i don't have the answer to that. i have been so fortunate. it is so giant that i don't feel like i could ever take credit for it or even ever really fully
compute it. >> how is joy as a different character for you? because she stretches over decades. >> you is a different side to david and i. we were saying, we are growing up a little bit. >> rose: yes. >> this is a quieter power. david says this is the first time i haven't played crazy for him. and also it is my first time growing with the character over -- i have grown with "the hunger games", you know, but each movie is different, each year i was old sore this was the first time it is four generations, playing the same woman. so that was a different stretch for me. >> rose: but you could understand joy? >> i understood my joy. and when i met the real joy mengano i was just sofas made by her heave because when david pitched they movie we weren't planning on doing a bio pic, we didn't want to put ourselves with those kind of restrictions, we want to be able to breathe
and have cinematic creation and explore dreams and nightmares in her childhood and have creative freedom and i wanted that too as an actor, i didn't want to be an imitation. but i started listening to her, obviously when i went to see her on tv, i watched it or had it on in the background and david would have these really long conversations with her and i would read -- and i would listen to them or they would be transcribed and i would read them and her life is sofas neigh and when i met her, she has such a unique energy and personality because she is very sweet. she doesn't have any airs. she is very friendly and fun and funny but she is also very quietly powerful, very -- has such a deep, deep patience and that was really inspiring for me. >> rose: but you have the same thing? >> well, thank you. >> rose: well, you know that. you listen to some of the things you have said, i try to plant everything and i have a course because i am controlling but i
watch my career take shape and i love what it has done. i never could have designed it in a million years. >> that's true. >> rose: but there is a sense of wanting to shape and develop. >> of course. and that's the scariest part of my job, is the gamble of reading a script, which one do you do? you never know. you can real an amazing script and hire a director who seems fantastic, and have an amazing co-star and you can be on the set and be completely out of control and watch it either fall apart or love it and then audiences don't respondable, you know, and there are certain -- there is planning of a year, you going to have this movie come out, what follows that? and that's the most stressful part of my job because it is a gamble but it is important to me that i do make those decisions. i don't want an agent's career or a lawyer's career. i want -- i need advice. i have an amazing agent and i
really respect his opinion but i would never do -- it is all my entire career is dictated by a feeling and i have gone through great lengths to try to make sure it stays that way, i have shed big parts of my team because i don't want more people to say, no to. >> rose: you trust your gut? >> i do. and seems i am wrong. >> rose: and when you are wrong, what do you think happened? >> everything is fine. it happens. in business, there are ups and downs, i am blaming myself, i should have listened to that person and you say oh i learn. >> rose: and you know why it turned out to be the wrong choice? >> yes. >> rose: what do you look for in a role? >> nothing. >> rose: it has to speak to you? >> yeah. i mean, the first, if i hear a story, in a, that sounds appealing and i read it and sometimes it is very clear, you just can't wait to jump in, you just can't wait to get started.
>> rose: is that true about joy? >> well, no, because there was nothing to read for joy, joy -- i mean joy, david just called me and said woul would you like toy the woman who invented the -- >> rose: who calls you in the middle of the night. >> that's how i know it is going to be good when david calls me in the middle of the might it is going to be a good one. and he is the only person i would nance the middle of the night. iit is the only person who calls in the middle of the night. >> rose: if david his it is good for you it is probably good for you. >> it doesn't even matter, david could pitch me something that sounds horrible, joy is a brilliant idea and i love him so much for having this heart and being inspired by this woman's story he can find a diamond in something that is being so overlooked, people can walk over it every day and stop and say there is a story here and peel it back and that's what i love about him. but it is not about the outcome of the movie when it comes to david, it is that way with
everybody else but with david it is on the experience on the set, what he does for me and i hate the word craft but it is so much more important for when i did "american hustle", i only had three weeks off, i think in about two years, i had three weeks off and it was either time off or do "american hustle" and i did "american hustle" and i am so happy i did because i strengthened that muscle and learned so much more and was able to develop from working with him, and that is what it is about with david. i hope joy does well. i think it will because i really think it is fantastic but i don't care. i just remember the experience on the set and it was so important. >> rose: what is the experience? help me understand the experience on the set. >> he is a storyteller and he is all about the magic of cinema. he is so untouched by everything. it is so pure, and i have never met anyone like that. i never met anyone in this business especially like that.
and everything -- everything is unusual and unorthodox because it is pure. he will waste time and shoot, have less time shooting because he wants to stay in my trailer telling me again and again and again the story of joy that i know in the script that i have read. >> rose: yes. >> again and again until he feels like there is some sort of shift in my eyes, we are on the same page and then we can go to set. >> and he can see it in your eyes? >> i don't know. i don't know. but that is what is most important to him. >him. >> rose: yes. take a look at this, this is a scene where joy is trying to sell the miracle mop at a k mart parking lot. here it is. >> well, it is the only mop you will ever have to buy. hi, would you like to try a new mop? >> no. it is so springy you can remove the mop head and throw it in the washing machine, no germs. >> no? >> no? you just want to try it. no other mop does this.p.
it is a mop of the future. >> no thanks. >> you want to try this mop, ladies. >> what is this? >> it is a brand-new mop. >> oh. you can wring it without getting your hands dirty. >> oh, i don't think so. >> come on, try it, it is the mop of the future. >> pretty springy, huh? >> yes:i do like the idea. you don't have to touch the mop head after i clean the bathroom floor, i always think that is disgusting, it really does get the corner and although crannies where my kids spill their juice.
>> i really like it, can we buy it? >> take it easy, christie. >> i have a great video on my phone of david just going nuts with a mop on the cleaning up slush. and he had his headphones in and it is like what are you doing? >> rose: but it was a magic time too when he -- when somebody else tried to sell the mop and he couldn't on qvc. >> yes. and she understood let me do it. >> and it is true that happened she watched her product destroyed by this spokes model. and really did convince them to let her go on. >> rose: but let me go back to roles. they just speak to you, it is no formula, there is nothing you are looking for. it just has to speak to you? >> i guess, yes. >> when you saw the hunger games for the first time? >> i loved the books. i was so -- i was really excited about that message and that
format for the young generation, i thought that was really brilliant and i loved the character. >> rose: what did you love about the character. >> it was so big. >> rose: strength? >> her strength, i mean, and also, the story about it is a story about sacrifice, everything she sacrificed and actually the think that i love most about her now is something that i kind of had to grow into, when i was younger it used to frustrate me how much of a her roy inshe was, i wanted her just to get it and be a hero and i grew up, and it is like no she understands, she understands the consequences of a war like any great warrior or leader does. >> rose: so as you grew up you understood? >> yes. >> rose: your first instinct is just to get it? >> yeah, it is like this could be a great cinematic moment. >> rose: i assumed it is called patience, discipline may be th the best word. do you have any sense of that now in terms of where you are you have to discipline yourself and not try to do too much and try to sort of be very
selective? >> yes. i do know -- i am selective, but there is also, you know, the great stuff happens that can only happen on the schedule, do you do it, do you do it, do you not do it is i ai am an actor and i have a shelf life. >> rose: how long is that shelf life? >> probably until i start getting crow's feet. i don't know. [laughter.] >> rose: but is it changing? i mean you spoke out on pay equity and after the sony hacking. do you believe that because you have the strength that you have, i mean, that this can change? >> yeah, i think the road is narrowing and it is a huge discussion, which is the most important thing we are talking about. and i think some things are changing. i had a friend tell me she is getting paid the same as her male co-star and she didn't believe that would have happened, you know, a year ago,
so that is hope that things are changing. >> rose: what is it that made you speak out? it is strong and therefore i now have the strength and confidence in myself? and you might have thought it and not said it and now you think it and say it? el. >> well, we have always known about gender inequality, it was about huge discussion but i had known about, about this issue and when the sony hack happened and i saw the difference, in pay, i spoke out because i knew what led to that. i knew that there was no one to blame but myself. i knew it wasn't sony's fault. it was what i had done with my own mentality, almost a gender bias that we as women i can only speak as a woman because i have never been a man but as women we almost put this gender bu bias n ourselves maybe possibly so i wanted to open up and said i feel this way, i feel awkward negotiating, i feel
uncomfortable asking for more money. i don't want to seem like a brat and like all of these things that are only words with that are used for women and don't have those words for males. and if this can help somebody, great. >> rose: because you had gained the strength and counsel to do it? >> yeah. i think i -- i think it has been an awkward process because i am growing up a little bit in the spotlight so i used to just keep my mouth shut about everything because my life depends on everybody just going to my movies and not just those who agree with my opinion and people tonight like opinionated actors or celebs, so it is scary to do it because you know you could be losing friends or box office tickets. >> rose: yes. >> but as i get older and i learn more, and i have opinions, i go, yeah, but i don't have -- i have just as much of a right to speak and with something like
that, it was something that was so clearly unfair if i don't use my voice for women who don't have a voice, then what is the point? >> rose: are there other political issues like that that garner your focus? >> i mean, i am very politically opinionated, but it's -- i don't know. i am still in the growing process, so i don't -- maybe in a year or i don't know when i will go, yes, and i am ready to speak about it, or i will go, no, you know what? i can have my opinion. freedom of speech is sightly different for celebs, because we have the freedom to say, but we have a lot more power behind it, there are a lot more people who will hear it. so before i ever speak, i want to make sure it is fair. i don't know, it is a growing process, i am still -- i am still suffering from growing pains in the press of should i say that? should i not say that?
i don't know. >> rose: you want to direct and you are going to direct? >> i am not ready yet, i didn't mean for that to break, that's whenever i ever actually surprised myself, i never meant to actually say that. >> rose: but -- >> i do, i do want to, i never really wanted to speak about it and i kind of would just want do it, especially if i was bad it is like i a i want to direct and then suck. that would be embarrassing. >> rose: yes. >> i don't feel ready right now, and but i wanted to direct since i was 16, so i have tried to soak up like a sponge every director and i have been so fortunate. >> rose: when -- >> i have been with great directors and she was very helpful and sweet and also real comfort because she is a very real, normal person. she is not -- she is not jaded but nice, he is just a very nice normal person and that was comforting because you don't know when you get into that it is like will i end up weird? how will i not end up weird. >> rose: do most of the people you know end up weird?
>> i have a really good group. there is hollywood is so small and such -- everybody is like high school, so when you find people that aren't weird dodos you really cling, weirdoes you cling to each other. >> rose: but you have great friendships with argument actors. >> yes, i have really gotten along well with my costars, i havhave been for that with that. >> rose: when did the acting bug bite you. >> at 14. >> rose: how did that happen. >> someone took my picture randomly and ended up at an audition and went home with a script and read it and it was just -- >> rose: it spoke to you. >> it did, yes. >> and you said i have to b to e this and do this? >> yes. and i really just knew, it is a crazy thing, it could have been just a stubbornness of a 14-year-old but i think back to that, it was a bizarre time being a 14-year-old trying to tell my patient i am moving from kentucky to new york and i know it is going to work out and i
really did. it was bizarre. >> rose: had you been to new york before? >> yes my mother and i went on spring break 0 for a week and that's when i got discovered and read the script and talked about it every day until i eventually left. >> rose: do you know what it was? it is just this is -- you could just feel this is the way i would like to spend my time? >> it was a big overwhelming feeling. of a weird, just this is what i am meant to do but there is also just such a comfort in understanding and understanding, i felt i wasn't a bad student because my parents would have grounded me but i wasn'ted very good in school. yes. i guess. i just didn't -- or i am just not good at learning that way. i remember looking around and it is like, are you guys getting this? and i remember reading it and going i understand this, as soon as i moved away, i thought it is like i am not actually dumb. >> rose: yes.
>> i am just not a good student. >> rose:. >> there is a big difference. >> rose: and some people can take tests and others can't. >> i can't take a test. i also can't audition? >> rose: you can't audition? >> no. >> rose: why not? >> it doesn't feel like acting to me. it feels like they throw panels at yo you and it is like act, is weird. >> rose: where do you -- i mean, so how did you become good? working with directors and practice? >> practice and growing. it is about growth -- >> rose: in watching and listening to me, it says to me someone who has an intuitive sense of how to move forward. >> thank you. >> rose: does that resonate with you? >> yeah. i guess. yeah. >> rose: you have an uncommon sense of where i am for, you know -- when you were 14. i mean, that requires some quality to be able to say, this is what i am going to do. i am going to act and move, bye,
mother and dad and i am going to new york city. >> yes. well, i always had a very strong sense, once i want it, to get it done. i don't really -- it won't leave my mind until it is just done so i end up doing things very quickly and aggressively and even reading if i decide i am going to read a book i won't stop reading it until i close it. >> rose: so you will read 100 pages at one setting? >> i will walk and read i am very good at walking and reading. >> rose: what are you read something. >> women and nature, a book i am reading, it is interesting. >> rose: what is it about? women and nature? >> it is about women and nature. it is by melanie griffin and she, i think, i hope i got that right. she is kind of explaining in a very professor yoarl, is that even a word, did i make that up. >> rose:. >> professorial way of why -- >> and it is not even in a preachy feminist way, it is feminist but just kind of this
is, this has been our place and this is why and compare that to nature. >> rose: are you one of those people who clearly in every attitude and every feeling you have are feminist but don't want to talk about labels? >> i used to be afraid of labels, but i am not afraid of feminism. i think the afraid of saying i am a feminist, being a feminist you feel that men and women are equal. why would you feel old saying that. >> rose: there is no reason. >> no. >> rose: when winter's bone came, how old were you? >> 18. >> rose: was that a turning point? >> when you look back, where have been the turning points? >> winter's point was definitely a career turning point but also i am growing with acting. so i felt like i was getting -- i remember really feeling like i am -- yes, that was a big turning point. i felt more harnessed.
harnessed? i don't know. >> that was a turning point, sill versus linings playbook was a turning point, i met david and changed my life and i won the academy award which changed my life and i feel the hungers game was a turning point. >> rose: when you are on the set with robert dinero is that a learning experience? >> yes. and at the same time. >> rose: like your father? >> yes. and i am so aware she a legend but also just bob. he is so nice. and i have known him for so long, and he doesn't -- he doesn't act like -- he doesn't act like a living legend. he is just a nice guy. >> rose: but david brought out in the conversation we had with him last night, the sense of detail. >> yes. >> rose: that he feels about acting. >> yes. >> rose: you know,. and it has nothing to do with the legend but a word you don't like or i don't like, craft, it has to do with his doing it. and doing it well. >> yeah.
>> well, he and i have, you know, like david said, he is superior interested in details and that got to me on one scene and joy, when i really noticed that because i rushed, and that is something i have to work on, i,is as i made clear before. >> rose: yes. >> you know, so i will be like i think my character would do this, but we have to shoot -- so let's just do it, this is wrong. and bob will never do that. >> rose: and are you learning to do that? >> yes. i am working on it. >> rose: when you think about missing college, is it something you want to go back to? >> no, not at all. >> rose: never? >> every time i think of passing to school, it is goll -- >> rose: what is it? it is just not. >> it is not for me. it is really -- it really isn't, obviously i respect it and i hope kids don't watch this and want to drop out of school. and i am sure young children are your exact demographic. >> rose: right. >> but, no i was never happy in school. i had social anxiety, not social
anxiety, i was just always exhausted and looking out the window and just thinking about freedom. i have always felt herded like in a herd and i felt stupid and i have learned so much. i am very curious. i am a naturally curious person and ask a million questions if i am can curious about something i will read about it. i want to learn, being in school has not about me not wanting to learn. i just don't like learning sitting in a room and reading about it, well i guess i will read about it in my room but that is different. >> rose: this is another scene from the film where -- we are going to skip as to where you are confronting neil brad cooper about the demonstration this samir cal mop and you will see the continuity here and brad cooper plays an executive at qvc. roll tape number 3. >> >> i have a meeting with our
lawyers. what do you think you are doing? >> go home, joy. and watch the numbers roll in on the television. 50,000 mops, owing every dollar including your home. >> it could have been handled better. i will entitle it another shot. >> i don't want todd or anyone else to try it. it should be me. >> we don't have any other people. we have celebs, spokes model do the selling. i told you. >> who showed you the mop? >> who sold it to you? who taught you how to use it? who convinced you it was great after you thought it was worthless? >> >> give us a second. come with me. >> [laughter.] >> rose: so tell me that scene. you in that scene. as an actress. >> it was -- >> rose: you were pissed and
you walk in there -- >> i was -- >> rose: bradley who misled you. >> yeah. you know, she -- yes. she put everything, she trusted this person, and then when it didn't work out, when the whole floor fell beneath her and she made 50,000 mops and she did everything and his mistake. >> rose: beg -- >> and ruined all of it she was angry, but she also had a goal. she also had an objective so it wasn't about going out and being -- into did she have greatness in her all along? she knew somewhere deep inside of her that she was special? >> yeah. and that is, david, that's why it was so important for david to include her childhood, because she had this magic when she was young, but nobody, that nobody could take away from her, and she lost that for 17 years. and then she found it again. >> rose: through marriage and job and all of that? >> yes, just from burying your
own desires. she forfeited the life for the people who she loved, and that is why there is a scene when i tuck my children in and i say, i feel like i am in a prison. at first i felt really wrong saying that because i thought it made, it didn't make me sound like a very good mother and that worried me but when i watched it i think it is great because of course she loves her family and she would gladly put things aside to raise children to be a good wife but that doesn't mean she doesn't have her own wants and desires. >> rose: family is everything for david russell. it is central here. >> yes. >> rose: the relationship between the father and daughter. >> david also has. >> rose: former husband. >> david has a creation and a gift inside of him that takes months and months away from his family but but he has to fulfill and i understand that feeling. >> rose: what is the feeling? >> that there is -- i love my family, i believe i will be a
mother one day and love my children. and -- but there is an entire he different -- i always say there is a part of my heart, part of my brain that belongs solely to david o russell, and that is the creative, the acting, whatever we want to call it. that part, that is a part of me, whether i am working with david or not it is always there and -- >> rose: he helps you find it. it was yours and he helped you find it? >> yeah. >> rose: that's a wonderful thing to be able to say. it really is. >> yes. >> rose: i mean if you can be impacted by someone and be so trusting, you know, and have him change your life and give you power -- to live and to be all that you can. >> >> rose: ever everybody needs a barry diller and he was yours. >> he was mine. >> so where does it go for you from here? do you change anything or do you simply keep growing?
>> i keep growing. i would love to be able to find a way with to build and keep growing forward career wise and be able to control the celeb side of things, that's always a stress of you just can't control it. and i hate being in tabloids and being in press, but fortunately it is not too much, but it is a whole different animal. >> rose: is there anything about how you -- have you experienced a, that surprises you, in other words, would you have gone, what you have gone through in terms of gaining command of your talent, in terms of the enormous financial success, in terms of whatever power you have to influence cinema, is there anything, in learning all of that is there anything about that that surprises you in that discovery? >> i mean, because it, the interesting thing for me to talk to you and what makes you sofas neigh is the talent that you see on the screen, but at the same time, there is a certain
innocence and yet a certain power and it seems to me that it is both artist and also business. >> oh. thank you. >> rose: but do you believe that? >> yes. >> rose: am i right? >> i work very hard to make that, to make that true. so thank you. >> rose: yes. but it is both that. >> thank you. because without gaining some sort of control over the business i lose some control over the creative. which is most important. so -- >> rose: and the more you control the business the more you can be a flower to the creative. >> exactly. >> rose: or give links to the creative. >> so i used to stay out of it, i don't care, i am an artist, i don't need -- and but this is my business now and it is important that my agent, that my agent always says, i am his only client, because it is my business and cash. >> rose: the only client that a calls him back -- >> immediately. >> rose: immediately. >> if i miss a call, i return
his e-mails and return phone calls. >> rose: because you want to know what options there are? >> yes. i have worked really hard to build this and i want to continue building it and it is my business, my personal business, so i don't understand how people do slack. >> rose: i don't either, and i am 100 years older than you are. but my plan -- but what makes you so interesting to me is that i don't know whether this is some giant plan you had or whether it is simply being prepared for opportunity, and opportunity -- >> it is certainly not a big plan, i don't think, i feel like i am reacting. >> rose: exactly. >> to what is happening and growing and developing an, you know, making mistakes, very helpful for that but having in mind in is important for growing up, it is like having in mind who you want to be. i want to be the kind of person who will say that thing that is really hard to say, that is really awkward and really difficult. >> rose: you want to have -- >> one day i want to be able to just say it and not make a joke
and not try to make it cute but just to say it and i really thinking that and not being able to do it, and then slowly developing and growing and eventually, and now i say all sorts of awkward things. >> rose: but you say them with complete -- i can do this. >> with deadpan. >> rose: if you don't like it, if you don't like it -- >> give me more money. >> rose: in terms of the negotiation, take me into this, this is who i am -- >> negotiation is hard and when i wrote that estee i wished to god i could have pushed send and it would have changed everything and i don't have anymore struggles the anymore because now i say i want this, this, and this and it is not. i was writing about a very real issue that i have, that i still struggle with because this business is very personal, and when you, especially when you work with people and in this industry it is creative and so there are ways you have to bend and go, of course i am not going to get paid on this movie,
that's fine i am not doing this movie for money but what is fair? and i don't know what is fair. >> rose: the fair -- >> who is they? no, they don't, but hopefully they, my they, my coyotes -- >> rose: your coyotes? >> that's what i call them, my dogs have to hunt. you know, i depend on them to explain to me what is fair. >> rose: yes. >> and, you know, i was trying to explain this to someone, because it is a very personal thing, it is their job to go out and see how much money can you get and then it is my job to be delicate about that and say -- but let's go in this way. we don't want to go in too -- we don't want to suffer from this. we don't want to burn this bridge. you know, there is a whole -- and i am learning and it is hard and i am not good at it. i am definitely not good at it yet i am trying very hard to learn about the business parts of it and have more control because it is confusing, because you want to do passion projects
and say i don't care you can pay me whatever you want but you don't want to sign a dotted line without a question of whether the deal is fair. >> rose: are david russell passion projects or business projects? >> they are passion projects, they are passion projects but david is very fair and david and i have a wonderful working relationship because we are completely -- we are very close and love each other very much but it doesn't affect business whatsoever at all. we can say exactly what we mean, and exactly what we want to say. >> rose: you can say to david this is not enough? i should be doing this. >> yes. >> and he understands you saying that? >> yes. >> rose: what about family in your own family? >> has this changed at all? i mean, do they revell in their level girl becoming this very strong woman? >> i think there is a confusion of what to do. i have never once, for one second of my life, i am so fortunate, i have never wondered
if one of my parent or one of my brothers loved me with all of their heart an soul and i love them. i think that it is confusing for my parents, you know, my mom lost me when i was 14. so i think that there is confusion of where does she fit in? >> rose: right. >> but never -- i mean, unwavering support, so much support, if anything it is just confusion. >> rose: you never felt unloved? >> never i never felt unloved, i never felt unsupported, i never felt -- i know i can trust my family with absolutely everything. nfusion and it is growing pains. it changed their lives too, which is sad, i never meant for that to happen but everyone has had to move, my brother has had death threats, you know, there are things that have come into their lives that are very unfair that come from my job. >> rose: this is -- i love
this. this is number 2. this is where trudy played brilliantly by isabella rossellini is testing joy's business instincts. here it is. >> you are in a room and there is a gun on the table. and the only other person in the room is an adder have sarah in commerce. only one of you can prevail, an adversary in commerce. >> yet you have protected your business and money. do you pick up the gun? >> that's a very strange question. >> there is nothing strange about this question at all. this is money. do you pick up the gun? >> i pick up the gun. >> good. >> i am going to remember that you said that when i speak to my lawyer. >> she is unreal.
>> goll. >> rose: isabella? >> yes. she gives me stomach cramps in that scene. it is like a shotgun. >> rose: is that right? >> oh. she was amazing. >> rose: yes. but tell me about the scene and tell me what your character was saying and why she said i can pick up the gun? what was it about joy? >> this whole story is moments in different, and different turning points for joy on finding this maturity and this power in her, that she didn't recognize, and so -- this is one of those moments where i believed when doing the scene, when she was asked the question, she didn't know, or would have even said no, i am going to pick up the gun. >> she saw that in your expression at the beginning. >> thank you. and then she find herself. >> rose: within a minute? >> yes. it happens very quickly.
>> what was great, when she came in and did that, that scene where she does all the tactical -- >> yes. exactly it was terrific. i mean i read it but then she did it, she did it so well and that's hard, you know, just to do it and have the authority and i saw how terrific she was and so that is -- and this, especially she had so much to do. and sometimes she would get annoyed at him, because he would jump in with a line and she -- let me do it, let me just finish this. sometimes i would get annoyed too and let me just finish what we worked on and you can throw us all -- >> rose: preparing first and then -- >> yes. what he is giving us is not good, it is not what he is not giving us is not good but we just want to do this. but what was the question?
she is great. yes. she is great. and he is terrific. she has a magic about her. >> rose: did david talk to you about this idea that, you know, you are the star of this film, and there is a huge amount of talent around the table, but you are -- you are the lead of this film. do you talk about that? >> yeah. >> rose: what is that conversation? >> it is all you, buddy. >> rose: it is all you. >> it is all you. >> rose: all you. can you handle it? >> yeah. we had, you know, different -- david is a sponge, a nonstop sponge. he gets inspired by the most bizarre things. he watched me getting my hair blow dried once and he said a shovel in a cemetery and ran ot of the room. he watched me as i said i moved into a house and unpacking boxes and i found a box of my childhood things that my mother had brought from my house in kentucky, and as i started to go
through all of this weird stuff and that inspired him with the paper, things for joy as a child, so i don't know. it is always -- it is always -- it is ongoing. even now, i mean, he is going to be writing something and he has got an idea of something now that, you know, i will tell him a story about my family in italy and he will go, that's a movie, and he is just -- he is always going. >> rose: so i mean, i am thinking about in movie history, has there been a relationship like that between you and david? >> does anybody come to you and say, you know, it is exactly the way it was with -- >> yes, and they are very great classic film names that i cannot remember. >> rose: no need. >> because david is the one that always says them and i nod next to him and i am like, uh-huh, uh-huh. >> rose: but it is growing together, isn't it? >> yeah. >> rose: you are both feeding off of each other and growing together. >> yes. >> which character, of all the characters is it joy or katniss
is, is it reed, who is i it, who sit that you felt most connected to? >> i mean, connect. >> connected is a tricky word. >> rose: choose the right word. >> well,. >> tiffany? >> with reed dolly, it was speaking in that accent took me to a completely different place, and it was so easy and so -- i don't know. so centering, as soon as i could a -- i do you understand find her immediately. with tiffany, i never found her. ever. >> rose: you never found her? >> i never found -- i never knew what i was doing. and i felt like i was swimming. >> rose: but did that make it a good performance? >> apparently. >> rose: apparently. the academy thought so. >> i was like, what? i remember sitting in an airport
and like oh, my god i will never work again, i will never work again abou before the movie camt and i hadn't seen it and i was always try to put my finger on her, and i couldn't, i could never grasp her. with joy, i understand those -- that kind of growth, and it inspired me, i have never felt the need to relate to a character because -- >> rose: but in joy's case there is -- whether it is greatness or something else, there is power within her that needs to be released, and when it released it shows what it is about? >> yeah. well, i understood -- gha that's a bit of your story too. >> a little bit, or a feeling very sure about this thing, and hearing this a million times and saying no it is there and i will make it happen after hearing no a million times. >> rose: because you were so young did you not feel no. >> i felt no. >> rose:. >> yes, i applied for all kinds
of roles and didn't get them and it never bothered me. >> rose: never? >> i can honestly say it never bothered me. >> rose: does anything bother you? >> yes. >> rose: like what? >> >> you can't spend so much time -- it is not in my day to day but every once in a while when you are tired and your defenses are down, you just go does everybody hate me? am i overrated? am ian knowing? because ian know myself. you don't -- nobody should be listened to as much as i am listened to, nobody should be -- i see pictures of me everywhere, and here everything i am saying, i say one thing to one reporter and it is like -- how, it is like how? doesn't this drive people nuts? so that scares me. >> rose: for a moment? >> yeah. and it worries me, i don't know. .. my personal life doesn't worry me at all. it is lovely.
it hasn't been a factor. i have really great friends. >> rose: who wouldn't want to be jennifer lawrence? >> who -- somebody with a low threshold for anxiety. >> rose: you have no anxiety. >> someone who is afraid of cameras. >> rose: or looking at pictures of themselves? >> yeah. oh, goll. >> rose: and hearing what they said. >> oh, goll. i was recently read an excerpt from a vogue vogue article. >> rose: which with is right here. >> i did and interview with when i was going through a breakup which i will never do again. >> rose: let me tell you this story. so i saw anna wintour like two nights ago i said is jennifer lawrence tonkov and she said yes, and she said it is just -- would you send it to me? so she sent it to me and she said you are going to love it because they is so interesting. you know, she has something to say and she is so interesting. >> that's nice. >> rose: but you are saying they caught you at a moment when you just felt like a confessional?
>> yes, you say something to -- to a reporter and it is like -- i was honest and we were hanging out for a few days and i just felt like, yeah, i didn't have my defenses up. i didn't have -- and i didn't want them to be up an i was okay with that. iit is like you know what? years from now when i read back this article, if i ever do, which i probably won't, if i ever do. >> rose: does it matter? >> that's exactly where i was at that moment in time when i was 25, i was sad and going through a breakup. i was only referring to one part, it is like i am lonely every saturday night, because i was trying to explain, it is like, if you say something and they are like, oh, goll guys don't ask me i am ilone every saturday night and you see it in print and it is like, oh, goll, geez. >> rose: she is lonely on saturday night? i don't think so. >> or who cares? [laughter.] >> rose:. >> i still don't feel bad for her. >> rose: $20 million a film and worried about whether she has somebody on saturday night?
no, we are not. >> i don't even care whether i have somebody on saturday night. i am good. >> rose: you are off to london. >> i am off to london. >> rose: and you start shooting? >> after the new year. >> rose: what do you start shoot something. >> well, i am going to finish a movie, i am doing a space movie with chris -- >> rose: and i read about that. they expect it will be, it will do well because europe is all excited about that? >> oh, europe is excited? >> rose: about space travel? >> oh, i, oh i never knew that about europe. you learn something new every day. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> thank you very much for having me. >> rose: good to have you here. >> thank you. >> rose: your performances speak for themselves and you is a great film because first of all it is an american story. and it is about family. and i mean, what kind of family do you have in which your ex-husband and your father are living in the basement? >> true. >> rose: with a little curtain separating them? >> it happens. >> rose: right there. >> yeah. >> rose:. >> thank you so much.
>> rose: continued success. >> thank you. >> rose: jennifer lawrence for the hour, thank you for joining us. see you next time. >> for more about this program and early episodes visit us online as pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org
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